Monday, June 4, 2007

Dems Debate: Is There a Difference on Iraq--Or Not?


From my "Capital Games column at www.thenation.com....

There are no major differences among us regarding the Iraq war.

So said Senator Hillary Clinton at Sunday night's Democratic presidential debate in New Hampshire.

There are profound differences among us regarding the Iraq war.

So said former Senator John Edwards at the same debate.

The difference over the difference was the main point of contention of the event. The positions staked out by the leading candidates were--no shocker here--obvious. Clinton wants to play down the fact that until recently she was out of step with Democratic primary voters concerning the war, for she had (a) voted to grant George W. Bush the authority to attack Iraq and then (b) more or less defended the war for several years before she (c) announced her campaign for presidency and starting calling (and voting) for an end to the war. So on the stage she pointed out that "we all believe we need to end the war." She added that whatever disagreements exist among the Democrats on how best to do so, these disputes are trivial given that every major Republican running to succeed Bush supports the president on the war. "This is George Bush's war," she declared.

It was a typical frontrunner's performance. Focus not on the rivals in your own party but on the other side. After all, Clinton doesn't want to encourage Democratic voters to compare the Democratic contenders on the Iraq war.

Edwards--who's placing third in the national polls but first in the Iowa polls--needs a line of attack on Clinton and Senator Barack Obama. So at the debate, he maintained there's an immense gap between himself and the other two. He defined it as the "difference between leading and following." He noted--correctly--that when the recent Iraq war funding bill was up for a vote in the Senate, he vociferously urged the Democrats in the Senate to say no to Bush, while Clinton and Obama went mum. Sure, Edwards went on, Clinton and Obama ended up voting against the funding, but they did so "quietly" and said nothing about how they would vote before the roll was called. That, Edwards maintained, is not leadership.

Edwards had a point--but perhaps a minor one. Is this criticism enough to fuel his attempt to overtake Clinton and Obama? Edwards' claim that he's the best antiwar candidate of the leading Democrats would have more potency if his current position were significantly different from theirs. But Clinton and Obama, by voting against the Iraq funding measure, did not give Edwards the opening he craved. And at the debate, Obama had a good comeback. "It is important to lead," he said, adding "I opposed this war from the start...not years late." Edwards, like Clinton, voted to give Bush the authority to start the war.

So among the Democrats' three leaders, there's a candidate who was initially against the war and now pledges to end it, a candidate who voted for the war and now pledges to end it, and a candidate who voted for the war and now pledges to end it and who criticizes his two key opponents for not being sufficiently passionate in their opposition to the war. Viva la difference? Or not.

Clinton hopes to blur the edges; Edwards needs to sharpen them. Meanwhile, Obama cannot coast on his original opposition to the war. If he and Clinton are at the same place now on the most critical issue for Democratic voters, he's going to have a tough time upsetting her apple cart. On Iraq--the dominant topic of the night--this debate did not achieve much for Clinton's main rivals. With Edwards' support slipping and Obama's support softening in the most recent national poll, each needs a boost more than she does. Bottom-line (for those keeping score at home): it was a good night for the former First Lady. Anytime she makes it through a debate without being clobbered, she's the winner.

Posted by David Corn at June 4, 2007 12:17 AM

34 comments:

capt said...

Mr. David Corn,

Too bad no real fireworks to report.

Edwards is right about Obama and HRC sticking their fingers into the wind before making the vote.

If this is the best we have to offer in the Democratic party, what does it say about us?



Thanks

Kirk

capt said...

"A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one!": Alexander Hamilton

=
"The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history, whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite." : Thomas Jefferson

=
"The greatest tyrannies are always perpetrated in the name of the noblest causes." : Thomas Paine

=
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is a knowledge of our own ignorance: Benjamin Franklin

===

Thanks ICH Newsletter!

capt said...

The Kennedy D&E


After the Supreme Court upheld the "partial birth" abortion ban in April I wrote a couple of posts ("Late-Term Confusion" and "More Late-Term Confusion") about how the Fetus People celebrating the end of "late-term abortion" had been seriously misled. I predicted the FPs would be in for a shock when they realized what the decision was really about, and that it did not "save" any "babies" at all.

Well, that day has arrived. Some in the rank-and-file of the movement to criminalize abortion have realized they’ve been had. And in a messy attempt at damage control, a spokesperson for James Dobson’s Focus on the Family explained that the "partial birth" ban would stop some abortions, because the alternative procedures are more dangerous to women. Which is what we pro-choicers have been saying all along.

Oh, what a tangled web we weave …


More HERE

*****end of clip*****

The lawmakers have made one type of three procedures illegal even though doing so puts women's health in jeopardy for no reason other than petty spite at their having an abortion.

This is a clear case of government gone bad.



capt

capt said...

Guantanamo judge drops charges against Khadr



GUANTANAMO BAY U.S. NAVAL BASE, Cuba (Reuters) - The military judge presiding at Omar Khadr's war crimes tribunal dismissed all the charges against the young Canadian on Monday.

The judge said he did not have jurisdiction to try Khadr under a new 2006 law authorizing tribunals at Guantanamo for foreign terrorism suspects. Khadr did not meet the exact definition of those eligible for trial, as written in the law.


More HERE

*****end of clip*****

That is the whole story? Why do we get a scant two paragraphs about a 15 year old kid we held in GITMO?




capt

capt said...

Profile: Omar Khadr



Omar Khadr, the Canadian Guantánamo Bay detainee who had all charges against him dismissed today by a military judge, was only 15 years old when he was captured in Afghanistan. He was wounded by US soldiers during a battle near the city of Khost and taken into US custody in July 2002. He has spent most of the past five years in the US military prison at the southern tip of Cuba.

During his capture he was shot three times and is nearly blind in one eye as a result of his injuries. The US military says Mr Khadr threw a grenade that killed a US Green Beret sergeant, Christopher Speer, and wounded another sergeant, Layne Morris.

Before Mr Khadr's hearing, his Pentagon-appointed lawyer, Marine lieutenant colonel Colby Vokey, said the US would become the first country in modern history to try a war crimes suspect who was a child at the time of the alleged violations if his trial went ahead.

Mr Khadr was charged with murder, attempted murder, providing support to terrorism, conspiracy and spying under rules for military trials adopted last year. The conspiracy charge was based on acts allegedly committed before Mr Khadr was 10, according to his defence team.

Amnesty International strongly criticised the decision to subject Mr Khadr to a military tribunal.

"To have held a 15-year-old boy in the harsh and lawless conditions of Guantánamo for five years has already been a travesty of justice - and to put him before an unfair 'military commission' trial simply adds to a disgraceful record in his case," said the Amnesty International UK director, Kate Allen.

Ms Allen said the US authorities should transfer his case to a civilian federal court on the US mainland.

Mr Speer's widow and Mr Morris filed a civil lawsuit against Mr Khadr and his father. In February, a judge awarded them $102.6m (£51m).

Several of Mr Khadr's family members have been accused of ties to Islamist extremists. His Egyptian-born father, Ahmad Said al-Khadr, was killed in Pakistan in 2003 alongside senior al-Qaida operatives, and Canada is holding Mr Khadr's brother Abdullah on a US extradition warrant accusing him of supplying weapons to al-Qaida.

Mr Khadr was the second prisoner to face terror charges under new military tribunals after the US supreme court in June struck down the previous military tribunal system at Guantánamo as unconstitutional. Congress then passed a law establishing a new system, which is also being challenged.

In March, the military tribunal at Guantánamo sentenced an Australian, David Hicks, to nine months in prison after he pleaded guilty to supporting terrorism - the first conviction at a US war crimes trial since the Second World War.

More HERE

*****end of clip*****

Five years in custody without a trial or a charge for anybody (even more so for a 15 year old kid) is neither justice nor just.




capt

WTF said...

Not to worry a great leveling is on the way, this paradigm is limited and actual harm that any of the current crop of wannabe presidents is going to be outdone by mother nature, and no amount of "spin" is going to put lipstick on that pig.

Plus when the american dollar is worthless then we shall see what exactly it is that keeps the US on top. Not much is my guess, the delusional american citizen is going to get a wake up call the likes of which has never been seen, and sooner rather than later. Just a couple of more months and then the new lifestyle will be upon you. Going to be a show. Do some investigation yourselves and see what is coming, not hard just a little time consuming.

capt said...

One major issue not addressed by the candidates is WIRETAPPING.

The biggest threat to the current misleadership is the truth and anybody caught telling the truth will be axed, smeared, belittled, dismissed, etc. by the MSM.

We should never lose sight of the simple fact that our mainstream media is owned by major multinational corporations and defense and military industry. Using all of the media as the biggest psyops in history is the biggest story that will NEVER be reported.

And to think that the wiretaps will not be used against the threat to the "state" in this mass media manipulation is a false assumption.


capt

Gerald said...

Wars frequently begin ten years before the first shot is fired. - K. K. V. Casey


How can democracy be spread without freedom of religion?

Catholic priest shot dead in IraqFrom correspondents in Mosul

June 04, 2007 05:37am
Article from: Agence France-PresseFont size: + -
Send this article: Print Email
A Catholic priest and three of his assistants were shot dead overnight outside a church in northern Iraq, the local police commander said.

Brigadier-General Mohammed al-Wagaa, police chief in the divided northern city of Mosul, said the cleric and his colleagues had been shot dead outside the Holy Spirit church in the Nur district.

"They finished mass ... and the four of them got into the priest's car to drive away. After they had gone about 100m a car cut them off. Four armed men got out and shot them dead," he said.

The Catholic news agency Asianews identified the victims as 31-year-old Father Ragheed Ganni and his three assistants.

Last month, the leaders of Iraq's Christian minority called on the country's beleaguered government to protect their community from attacks by al-Qaeda-inspired Muslim extremists.

In a joint statement, Patriarch Mar Dinka IV of the Assyrian Church of the East and the Chaldaean Catholic Patriarch Emmanuel Delly of Babylon said Baghdad's remaining Christians were facing persecution.

They blamed the so-called Islamic State of Iraq, an alliance of Islamist insurgent groups that serves as an al-Qaeda front, for much of the violence.

"Christians in a number of Iraqi regions, especially those under the control of the so-called Islamic State of Iraq, have faced blackmail, kidnapping and displacement," the May 10 statement said.

Before the US-led invasion of March 2003, there were estimated to be about 800,000 Christians in Iraq, about three per cent of the otherwise largely Muslim population, living mainly in urban centres such as Baghdad.

Although there were some attacks on churches in the immediate aftermath of the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, Iraq's Christians were not especially targeted while rival Sunni and Shiite Muslim factions went to war.

As a relatively wealthy community, however, many Christians fell prey to kidnap and ransom gangs and many - probably more than half - of them have fled the country or moved to the relative safety of Iraqi Kurdistan.

Now there are reports that Salafist groups such as al-Qaeda, fundamentalists who believe Islam can be renewed by returning to the values of the era of the Prophet Mohammed, are targeting Christians on purely sectarian grounds.

The US Commission on International Religious Freedom, an independent bipartisan government agency, last month voiced concern at the deteriorating situation for freedom of religion and belief in Iraq.

Christian communities now face the threat of eradication in their historic homelands in Iraq under pervasive and severe violence and discrimination at the hands of both government and non-government actors, it warned.

Gerald said...

The Mistakes We Make

Nobody can keep from making any mistakes, but some are more harmful than others. William Arthur Ward, author of several books, including Thoughts of a Christian Optimist, suggests that, as much as possible, we avoid these mistakes:

Remorse over yesterday’s failures.

Anxiety over today’s problems.

Worry over tomorrow’s uncertainty.

Waste of the moment’s opportunity.

Procrastination with one’s present duty.

Resentment of another’s success.

Criticism of a neighbor’s imperfection.

Impatience with youth’s immaturity.

Unbelief in God’s providence.

We need to forgive ourselves, our flaws and failures, just as God wants us to forgive others – and to keep trying our best each day that God grants us.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. (Matthew 6:12)

Guide me, Holy Spirit, with Your wisdom and counsel, in the choices I make this day and everyday.

Gerald said...

Building Up a Neighborhood

Kathy Henderson found the perfect home for herself and her daughter in Washington, D.C.’s Carver Terrace region.

Unfortunately, the neighborhood was a nightmare. Henderson’s dream home was surrounded by gunfire, drug markets and crack houses. She turned to the local police, but got little help and realized that she had to take matters into her own hands.

With the assistance of other concerned community members, Kathy Henderson was appointed “neighborhood commissioner” and organized the Orange Hat Patrol – a citizen-watch group. She made it clear to the drug dealers that she would not back down. Her actions put pressure on the local police, forcing them to work with her to help clean up the area’s crime.

Now, the neighborhood “is not perfect, but it’s far better,” says Henderson.

Pray for the courage not to back down, to do what’s right even in difficult or dangerous situations.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Be courageous and valiant. (2 Samuel 13:28)

Inspire people to fight for welfare of their neighborhoods, Eternal Father.


How can our neighborhoods be better if law enforcement personnel will not help in making them better?

I see a total deterioration of our society as we once knew it.

Gerald said...

Personally, I have been disappointed in the Democrats since they took control of Congress. Yet, I must keep in mind that they do not have the numbers to be effective. Even with the numbers to do more for the people, I have serious doubts whether or not they will do more for the people. Dems and repukes are opposite wings of the same bird.

Gerald said...

All they have are each other

Gerald said...

"The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."~~Dante

Gerald said...

God, I can't keep up with the numbers. It's impossible to do the math -- to stay abreast of the burgeoning number of precious human beings who were lied into a death trap and who return to orphans, widows, and parents physically maimed, psychologically deranged or as neatly folded US Flags. There is no evidence that Bush knows, or cares, that 633 soldiers and marines have been brutally wiped off the face of the earth since he was given the Iraq Study Group report, then strutted off like a college kid on Christmas break to "decide" whether to pull the troops out of the trap or to keep using them as bait. We knew, and Congress knew, what his decision would be -- and what it was -- more troops.

Gerald said...

Democrats hide the pork

Gerald said...

Here is an example of why Katrina made my fox list

Gerald said...

Hitler Bush is the darling of religious warmongers because he seeks the end time and the rapture sooner rather than later.

Gerald said...

For anyone interested Vermont secession movement gains traction. You can receive more information by going to Yahoo News and read John Curran's article. It is dated June 4, 2007.

Personally, secession may be our only hope for a return to democracy in Nazi America.

Gerald said...

If our votes really counted and we could vote for secession, I would vote that Michigan should secede from the Nazi States of America.

Gerald said...

How to foil a terrorist plot

capt said...

The year is 1907. One hundred years ago.

What a difference a century makes!

Here are some statistics for the Year 1907:

***************


The average life expectancy was 47 years.


Only 14 percent of the homes had a bathtub.


Only 8 percent of the homes had a telephone.


There were only 8,000 cars and only 144 miles of paved roads.


The maximum speed limit in most cities was 10 mph.


The tallest structure in the world was the Eiffel Tower!


The average wage in 1907 was 22 cents per hour.


The average worker made between $200 and $400 per year.


A competent accountant could expect to earn $2000 per year, A dentist $2,500 per year, a veterinarian between $1,500 and $4,000 per year, and a mechanical engineer about $5,000 per year.


More than 95 percent of all births took place at HOME .


Ninety percent of all doctors had NO COLLEGE EDUCATION! Instead, they attended so-called medical schools, many of which were condemned in the press AND the government as "substandard."


Sugar cost four cents a pound.


Eggs were fourteen cents a dozen.


Coffee was fifteen cents a pound.


Most women only washed their hair once a month and used Borax or egg yolks for shampoo.


Canada passed a law that prohibited poor people from entering into their country for any reason.


Five leading causes of death were:

1. Pneumonia and influenza
2. Tuberculosis
3. Diarrhea
4. Heart disease
5. Stroke


The American flag had 45 stars.


The population of Las Vegas, Nevada, was only 30!!!!


Crossword puzzles, canned beer, and iced tea

hadn't been invented yet.


There was no Mother's Day or Father's Day.


Two out of every 10 adults couldn't read or write.

Only 6 percent of all Americans had graduated from high school.


Marijuana, heroin, and morphine were all available over the counter at the local corner drugstores. Back then pharmacists said, "Heroin clears the complexion, gives buoyancy to the mind, regulates the stomach and bowels, and is, in fact, a perfect guardian of health." ( Shocking? DUH! )


Eighteen percent of households had at least one full-time servant or domestic help.


There were about 230 reported murders in the ENTIRE ! U.S.A. !


Try to imagine what it may be like in another 100 years.

*****

From an email, I haven't checked any of the facts but find them entertaining just the same.

capt said...

The accomplice to the crime of corruption is frequently our own indifference" : Bess Myerson

=
"Each candidate behaved well in the hope of being judged worthy of election. However, this system was disastrous when the city had become corrupt. For then it was not the most virtuous but the most powerful who stood for election, and the weak, even if virtuous, were too frightened to run for office." : Fyrefly1985 Niccolo Machiavelli

=
"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self- preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property, and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means." --Thomas Jefferson to John Colvin, 1810

=
"It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt." -- John Philpot Curran: Speech upon the Right of Election, 1790. (Speeches. Dublin, 1808.) as quoted in Bartlett's Familiar Quotations

===

Thanks ICH Newsletter!

capt said...

"So who are we honoring here?"



Our Loss


Cindy Sheehan announced her departure from the American public sphere last week, and the loss of her voice touched me deeply.

I am saddened for her personally, for few have sacrificed so much for their country, with so little to show for it. She gave her son, Casey, for George Bush’s war in Iraq. Then she spent the next three years giving up her health, her marriage, the full-time parenting of her surviving children, and every ounce of her time and energy – all to prevent other mothers from suffering the same fate.

Arguably, she has nothing to show for her sacrifices other than the scorn of America’s rabid right, most of whom somehow never seem to show up themselves when there is fighting to be done abroad. That plus another hole in her heart, to match the one left by the waste of her son’s life.

To read Sheehan’s farewell letter is to realize that she now also mourns another death along with Casey’s, that of America as the country she and so many others of us grew up believing in.

Most Americans know of Sheehan from the stand she took outside Bush’s vacation ranch in Crawford, asking only that he meet with her. The sheer courage and simplicity of that act made for a compelling David versus Goliath story that few could not find inherently sympathetic.

Which is precisely why it drove conservative pundits ballistic, and why they launched their vitriolic personal attacks against her, just as they have with every other one of their critics or political adversaries. To observe the savaging of a mother who had given her son for this country, because she dared to ask inconvenient questions, was perhaps the greatest shame of all in an epoch of one astonishing political disgrace after another.


More HERE

Gerald said...

Against Cold Rock




"And yet there is a surreal silence, save for the noise of 'news' in which our powerful broadcasters gesture cryptically at the obvious but dare not make sense of it, lest the one-way moral screen erected between us and the consequences of an imperial foreign policy collapses and the truth be revealed. John Bolton, formerly Bush's man at the United Nations, recently spelled out the truth: that the bush-Cheney-Blair plan for the Middle East is 'an agenda to maintain division and ethnic tension.' In other words, bloodshed and chaos equals control." - John Pilger, "Iran may be the Greatest Crisis of Modern Times", ISR, May-June, 2007.

Bloodshed and chaos equals control: the war strategy in a nutshell. The formula of the corporate news media reinforces this line perfectly: the more chaos, the more violence, the more fear, the more Americans will support war as the only possible solution. The U.S. has deliberately inflamed warfare between Sunni and Shiite in Iraq in order to ensure the conditions for permanent control.

The best commentary I've read so far on Cindy Sheehan's resignation is from Sunsara Taylor: "And, yes, it can seem at times like we are hurling our soft bodies and our embattled dreams up against cold rock, and like the forces aligned against us are made of impenetrable marble. But marble has fissures and fault lines and cracks deep beneath the surface and these can be located and the marble itself can be pried apart by the determined action of millions who dare. So I am struck again with the truth and the enormity of our choices captured in the final words of the World Can't Wait Call: "History is full of examples where people who had right on their side fought against tremendous odds and were victorious. And it is also full of examples of people passively hoping to wait it out, only to get swallowed up by a horror beyond what they ever imagined. The future is unwritten. WHICH ONE WE GET IS UP TO US." - Sunsara Taylor, "This is Not a Story About Cindy Sheehan", CounterPunch, June 3, 2007.

This rock, I fear, is the imponderable weight of our sins, both personal and social. Therefore, it is only our action, our determined heartfelt action, that can pry open the cracks in the subterranean rock that weighs the heavier the more we refuse to grow in spirit.

Gerald said...

Against Cold Rock is from the Nonviolent Jesus website.

Gerald said...

"History is full of examples where people who had right on their side fought against tremendous odds and were victorious. And it is also full of examples of people passively hoping to wait it out, only to get swallowed up by a horror beyond what they ever imagined. The future is unwritten. WHICH ONE WE GET IS UP TO US." - Sunsara Taylor, "This is Not a Story About Cindy Sheehan", CounterPunch, June 3, 2007.

This rock, I fear, is the imponderable weight of our sins, both personal and social. Therefore, it is only our action, our determined heartfelt action, that can pry open the cracks in the subterranean rock that weighs the heavier the more we refuse to grow in spirit.


When history records this time period, I fear what will be said about Americans. At one time I felt that Americans were basically good people who tried to do their best. I can now only say that Americans are a selfish people who are into murders and war crimes. Yes, Americans get their rocks from murders and war crimes.

Gerald said...

Against Cold Rock backs up my theory that that Nazi American foreign policy is trying to control the Middle East through death and destruction.

Gerald said...

Cpl Adam Kokesh is to receive a general discharge for his anti-war march.

People, you cannot take on city hall and expect to win.

Work within the system to bring change!!!

Being anti-war within the system will help the person's credibility.

Gerald said...

I sense an undercurrent of dissatisfaction with the Democracts by the American people.

On Lew Rockwell's website there is an article that talks about Ron Paul. He tells the truth.

Americans have problems with people telling the truth.

Americans love warm fuzzy lies like "Americans are good, holy, and saintly people." Down deep inside Americans know that is bullshit.

Gerald said...

Is there a ground swell for treating depression, like getting married? Will marriage end depression?

The Nazi Party has recommended that welfare women and men should marry.

Is marriage the answer for life's problems?

Gerald said...

The Words

I have from time to time said what was my definition of love. As I have said, “Love is wanting the best for another person or persons.” This post is to share with you my love in words. There will be 29 words shared with you.

The Six Words

I was listening on the radio sometime back and Dr. Paul Pearsall, a psychiatrist, was discussing the six words that would bring us happiness in our natural word. He said the six words were HAVE LESS, DO LESS, SAY NO. Each person will decide for him or herself what these words mean in their life.

The Eight Words

Jesus of Nazareth has given each of us the eight words to practice in our lives to prepare us for happiness in the supernatural world. Jesus said, “Love one another as I have loved you.” If we practice these words in our daily lives toward our brothers and sisters in God, we will be preparing ourselves for supernatural happiness.

The Fifteen Words

With the six words and the eight words we will be ready upon our death to hear the fifteen most glorious words that you and I would want to hear. “Welcome home, my good and faithful friend. Come, I have prepared a place for you.” Please reflect on these words from time to time! Please think about God preparing a place for you and me! But, most importantly, please think about God calling you and me His friend! Can you even imagine the Creator of the Universe and the Creator of all there was and all there will ever be calling us His friend? The thought of being God’s friend is beyond comprehension for me as a mortal being.

You can accept these words or not accept these words. You have a free choice. I am giving you my love through these words.

capt said...

New Thread

Gerald said...

Generosity, not domination, is the way forward

This is a great article.

On the second hour of the Diane Rehm show was an author of a book revealing the torture that goes on in Iraq by American interrogators. The author was one of those interrogators. He said that if he is tried for war crimes through what he says in his book, then Rumsfeld and George W. Bush will also have to be tried for war crimes. He believes that Bush knew and ha gave the okay for torture.

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